Just like Atlantis

Just Like Atlantis.

A definitive review of trident realm in 3rd edition

By a guy that didn't just play fury of the sea.

 

 

My oh my trident realm changed massively as a faction through second edition. Here is the long and short of it they were awful and not competitively playable until COK19, although many people appreciated the aesthetic and the playstyle.

So roll on COK 19 where pretty much everyone played

 

Depth horrors/Thuul/Hidden ones *3 (sometimes kraken)

Fury of sea(ensnarer horde, 2 heartpiercers, flying centurion)

2 knuckers

2 wizards

Ekhter

Siren

a filler if points

 

essentially this list was a heavy board control and amazingly fun list to play if you enjoy saying no to your opponent, ultimately you threatened the middle and rolled enough dice with individuals and heart piercers people had to engage while saying no with ensnarers and the toys protected the flanks.

Its issues were it can get shot off and flying was horrendous for it, those that say knuckers and centurion and ekhter shut down flanks form flyers are not playing against great players with multiple flyers.  The pull and push disrupting, teleporting ehkter, healing regen etc etc made this list fun and unique to play I loved it.

 

The builds I played though were hard to kill melee builds and a world apart from this,

 

giga formation (2 hordes)

Kraken or 2

2 Knuckers (sometimes one became trident king)

2 water elemental hordes

depth horror horde

hidden ones

thuul (I varying amounts ad sizes)

healing and weakness magic Asbs

flying centurion

mythican

other resilient bits make cameos

 

you can see previous blogs for more details, basically I played this like most people play undead but without the chaff, a lot of people thought they did more damage than they did and it ground so well

 

I also less often played (for fun I knew it was suboptimal) msu trident realm

 

frog troops

thuul

centaurs

heartpiercer troops

wyrm rider regiments

3 knuckers

trident king

etc etc

 

this was a giggle tbh but showed me all the problems the faction had and that were hidden by fury of the sea.

In my irrelevant opinion all the fury of the sea was played the most trident realm was actual bought alive by the new spells, critters call, weakness, teleport, and to a lesser extent alchemists curse, but also who could take all of these spells.

 

I think breaking TR in a competitive respect will be a Mammoth challenge without spam in this edition, however it deserves a review even though I feel it will become very very rare this edition, I feel this because its my feeling the character that had been put in seems to have been taken out of the army for me anyway. 

Any way lets review the units

 

 

Unit review

 

 

Units scored 1-10 on how much I think you should see them in competitive lists

troop/reg/horde

 

Poison frog upgrade, brutal when you chose for cheap, yes please 10

 

Naaid ensnarers.

I'm not a fan as these guys have never done any work for me and I feel that the formation made them work by deleting things while they held a key objective at 250 points doing not a lot.  However they are a good scenario piece and can be reasonably self sufficient with hammer of measured force which is what I suggest.  In terms of size I think its horde or go home to get use out of the regen, I think troops aren't great and should be thuul or TL, regiments are ok but should be placoderms in most lists, and the horde is decent enough but should probably be depth horrors.  Sorry if you disagree but how may of these do you see in nature armies? they take salamanders right (sorry guys i'm biased with these but I genuinely feel it was the formation that made these strong)

1/5/6

 

Thuul

The little fellas went up in price to the correct price, hidden ones left us which makes me sad. Both sizes are valid, I think will be a mainstay this edition, I think when people see how much steady aim, pierce 1, range 4 shooting is out there the depth horrors that people are spamming will soon add more thuul.

6/7

 

Riverguard treeleapers

These are a large improvement from the edition before if you go with the troop, however the regiment is just so costly for its output, that I cant see it seeing play much unless an unlock is really needed. Either way its nice to have some skirmishers that are just unpredictable enough with Bastion up that people wont want to risk getting stuck on them and flanked.

6/4

 

Placoderms

Phalanx troops are irrelevant usually and a waste of print, but then def 6 ones aren't, regiments are a cock block for people to hit and get stuck.  The output on these guys is poor but DEF6 is amazing, with phalanx its even better, these have definitely become the correct price point and rules, speed 5 means everything, I love these guys with healing items or diadem.  I think most people wont take them, I think they are wrong, and I think those who do will only consider regiments and I think they are wrong. 4 troops to me seems amazingly interesting in front of a wall of depth horrors, thuul or dam busters.

7/7

 

Naaid heartpiercers

Interesting unit, you will see them, but i'm not confident TR are a combined arms army anymore, I think these are the single biggest losers of the edition, irregular/no ensnare, however 2-3 troops with enthral to pull things out of inspire is still a thing.  Regiments are meta dependant to only where you had shooting before, I think these will be mainly in the roll skaven weapon teams took in the last edition.

6/4

 

Riverguard

Nerfed river guard and they were awful before, plus irregular.  I cant see these making lists they are not quite as bad as chariots, but im guessing mantics moulds are broken but they have loads of upgrade kits hanging about :)

3/1

 

Tidal swarm

Interesting piece, they are not my style but have something the rest of the chaff doesn't for a big discount and that's fearless.  Definitely good enough with scout, I thought were poor before so I will uprate appropriately, the regiment is the money for me 3 points of nerve for nearly double cost is eye watering, although I guess 40 flank attacks is interesting.

6/4

 

Nokken

These guys lost scout and gained (got nerfed with) shambling. Used to have occasional uses hanging around mid table breathing asking people to trade, the double move nerf in most situations is pretty bad.  Surging into terrain so they don't take cover is cute I guess, but i think will being in a meaningless location for it to matter, I could be wrong here but I think for the second edition running they have saved me building a set.

4/4

 

Depth horrors

These are one of the main stays, ensnare /15 on the regiment is amazing, the horde offer more of a hit than anything else TR have.  Will see them, will see regiments this edition also, I cant think of a list without 1 horde in

7/9

 

Water elementals

the slight buff with strider has been massively offset with these guys, having been "the only" guy I know that tried and made these really work, I will say critters call and casual healing we had, and the efficacy of BC surge and myrmiddans fireamulet are the reasons they worked.  They are still ok but remember the extra cost in the surge caster I think these go from a around a 7-8 because we needed the flyer protection, down but not to much as you will save points in not supporting them and leave them to fend for themselves

6/6

 

Naaid wyrm riders

perplexed why they needed nerfing or what anyone was smoking, they are quick pathfinder, they see over some hills, that's their use I think, im maybe being harsh I didn't mind the regiment before and its still ok,

5/2

 

Gigas

Another unit got overhauled, lost elite and a point of cs, gained nimble, vicious and def 5 in flank/rear.

Still playable but used to be 7 damage a turn now probably 5-6, nimble is interesting, gained 5 points a unit (when you - formation cost) def 5 in flank is useful.  I went on a rant with these initially ill apologise later to Matt for that, they are not amazing but they are serviceable, I just wish they benefitted from horn of the ocean, I mean another def 6 unit is pretty sweet and where I think nimble does little for the horde, the regiment can now get out of the way very easily

6/6

 

Riverguard dambusters

these are proof power creep isn't yet real, however they are not in box set form yet and if they get a nuclear blast next year it also proves the business model.

Its all interesting stuff, but where I apologised to Matt James before i'd love to know these guys roll.

Its almost like they were designed to always be undisrupted in a flank, regen 6 is meh, sticky tongue is bizarre on a tc 2 unit, the lack of path finder is perplexing and I consider strider a downgrade here.

I mean they are not terrible but very expensive, someone could unlock them and rule the world, in my mind I have no doubt about that, but I don't have a key

5/5

 

Greater water elemental

Barry the barrel he got strider, he still needs to be more hitty, but hes ok as a beat stick and the model is ace

5

 

Knucker

fair size nerf here that may seem like a buff, but ultimately change the way the model plays, these were simple 4 damage front, 8 flank, 11 rear. However losing 2 points of TC and replacing it with CS1 means the odds of not damaging a flyer are great, def 5 stuff can possibly laugh them off on a flank or even a rear if it must. This monster is more bad player friendly for the grind, but for precision players they will feel this nerf bad, however due to the fact tr have virtually zero defence for flyers or warmachines all of what I said is irrelevant and his stock goes up

8

 

Coral Giant

Used to find these interesting im now perplexed as were not common before gained 1 attack, 15 points more and a much bigger base meaning the ensnare is less relevant. On the fence here tbh I guess again could be some gold to pan as speed 7 is good and cs 3 now rarer

6

 

Kraken

Gained wild charge D3 for 10 points, seems fair and were good before, however I feel the cs4, pierce 1 shooting and warmachines mean he may disappear fast from lists, maybe regen is enough who knows

7

 

Leviathans bane

had potential range 4 is interesting, but enthral only being able to be used once is a bit meh, I just think they are a lot of points when they take ever defensive penalty going and TR don't sit back and defend them but instead get in the way.

4

Heros

Naaid centurion
this model makes me wants to cry, so she lost ensnare and she lost the ability fly at def 5 and she lost the ability to take a heart piercer and went up 5 points, sadly the difference between -1 to hit def 5 over being flat def 4 with wings of honey maze is massive also obviously misses fury from the formation, up a pip of nerve.  Not unplayable but definitely not what she was and wont see much play
3

Naaid stalker
Cheap mans centurion that cant tank like the centurion did but can disrupt flyers and hunt with wings, and without wings still contributes with a heartpiercer, so is very reasonable, and likely choice
7

Naaid Centurion Wyrmrider
so this guy is the reason the knucker didn't need changing, he's a better knucker in most situations but takes a character slot so isn't seen much
5

Depth horror eternal
A heavy hitter is he gets that flank with nimble, I like models like him tbh and should find more room for him yet ever seem to
6

Thuul aquamage
this new boy has some inspiring for elemetals, the options of weakness, wild charge aura, surge and icy breath. I like him overall isn't 1 + but wild charge aura is cute especially if stacked with speed items. A 1+ if taking elementals
6

Thuul Mythican
Hes what he always was hes ok, hes a support caster that can be a melee guy also, hes well better than average but not amazing he ca be important just to guard from flyers, I think he will be seen a fair amount at least until boomstick gets nerfed
7

Naaid envoy
not what they were when they had the choice of a million spells but equally they shouldn't be, will often see one just because bastion a a fury aura are a thing, but that's how may you will see, as imho TR need all the fighting heros they can to try and control flyers.
7 with the two (1)  5 otherwise

Siren
oh how the mighty have fallen, used to have a unique a flavourful spell, now has enthral, which you will use I occasional gunline or surge builds where even then you may see her.  No longer (1) but most lists will have zero unless they are taking her for heal in a gunline, maybe see her if she inspired
5
 

Riverguard sentinel
great little combat character, all the rules except strealth, but 4 attack duellist ? give him 5 and he might have been seen, inspiring the same, but at 135 hes sadly overcosted, which is a shame as hes cool
4

Riverguard dambuster sentinel
scroll up to dam busters, a mess of rules that costs lots, I like that his nimble on a single base can get you out of the way
5-6

Eckter
still the same guy add the fact alchemist curse is gone but also teleport gone, trident realms only decent tech against flyers and cav is right here
9

Trident king
I took him no one else did, I played Dan King he spent the whole gaming killing a regiment of carrion, hes now gone up in cost and breath has bee nuked, bizarre but I burned mine on you tube
4

Tactics and lists.

Trident realms have 2 builds I my mind
a slow pretty decent melee build that is decent in scenario, you can play lots of units, you can make it mixed arms but why live a lie, a list of thuul and depth horrors spammed is this build.
if you metas shot heavy add heal or add individuals for speed

the other build is a mixed arms gunline, similar to last edition but no where near as strong, however a lot more troops leads to an msu control space build, its interesting it may be ok, it requires a top player where the first doesn't to work.

i'm going to try both tbh (approx. builds)

my meat build will be
Water elemental hordes *2
thuul regiment
thuul troop
Depth horror hordes *2
Tidal swarm reg
Kraken
Knucker
Naaid Centurion
Thuul aquamage
Eckter

My msu/mmu high def build with shooting will be
2 giga hordes
2 depth horror hordes
4 placoderm troops
3 heartpiercer troops
Siren (heal and ethrall)
Eckter
Envoy with bastion as horn

I worry about TR in this edition, I worry about warmachines, I worry about flyers and I worry about pierce 1 steady aim shooting.  Flying centurions erf, siren nerf, critterscall, envoy nerf, wyrmrider nerf, no cavalry individuals, teleport gone and a plethora of other things, have meant at least in my mind our tools have nearly all gone, this army is essential a mash of infantry/monstrous and some decent monsters. I think overall the faction is lower middle tier but as per usual in any faction is a spam list that's good, when oh when will the RC bring in unit caps its a huge issue imho and putting me off the game a little.
On paper I think they have reasonable parts, but in reality I feel the parts don't add up to as good a sum as you like because of the lack of tools.
I think they will be an enjoyable challenge but you need to be of a mind set of rebuilding to every meta you face and permanently reconstructing as they don't have all comers lists and do have terrible match ups, if you want better TR just play salamanders or orcs which are similar but seem better on paper and I think in reality by a fair margin, however I love the aesthetic
I know there are real TR fanatics out there hit me up, explain to me why im wrong ad tell me the lists I've missed, have they sunk like Atlantis or do we think they will submerge ?
 

Elves in Pannithor

The Definitive Kings of War Guide

Well my guide anyway!

So another year, another COK (20) and another season for me pushing arrogant elves.

I mean shit changed right, last year I primarily played variants of the list below at locals but for the most part I played TR.  I promised this review to a lot of people and will enjoy writing ad thinking about it, im capricious and slightly antagonistic though so please take it with the tongue and cheek intended

Palace Guard regiment

Palace Guard regiment

Storm wind regiment who find paths

Storm wind regiment who take creatine

Glade stalker troop

Archer troop

Blizzard Wizard on an inspiring  pony

Alchemist curse wizard on foot with critters call

King on pony with beast slayer heading up his formation

ASB with a banjo

Madriga

regiment of drakon war hawk things

Basically I had moved to a less traditional elf list, for me a combination of critters call, weakness and lack of black crown meant I didn't rate archer and drakon hordes as much as many became reliant. Im 22-1-0 with this style of list by the way and have played several masters players with it.

So if you are expecting a self loathing whinge fest, go listen to counter charge, have the RC got shit very wrong with elves, yes on some of it, did the guys have some great points on counter charge, yes some, but it wasn't constructive tbh. I think as a commentator on anything its important to provide solution and not just whinge. 

This is going to be a marathon of a review. Half way through i'll cut the blog and do sylvan and twilight another day, I suggest breaking at the unit review end also and coming back before you read the tactics and list reviews.

Right now ill put in my disclaimers, I am opinionated, I do see some things black and white and I cant change that or be positive about something I'm not, I do value opinions, so hit me up.

twitter@chaffmaster1, messenger ap, facebook or on this blog in comments

Units review

Scores out of ten are trp/reg/hrde

Sabre tooth hunting cat special army upgrade available on king to give +5 attacks against individuals 10 points, or prince extra 3 attacks.

My verdict is you have 10 points left or a king you might take this

Kindred Tallspears

Same as before I always liked these and I still do, phalanx is a more impactful rule than it once was, id get a troop of these over battle cats for 90, 140 for a regiment is frustrating for people to deal with and I think at 230 the horde is a tad pricey, but with bane chant they rock. I have to be honest I try and avoiding putting items on them, but if I was gonna I think crystal pendant or measured force are their gigs and pathfinder to push them up and leave hindered charges can be a thing.

5/7/7

Palace Guard

Same as before, I rarely left home without some, elves don't have much CS and these always gave some grind, however now they come in hordes.

Here is the thing I think the horde is a trap, def 4 hordes at nearly 300 with an item, with no defensive tech seems really sad. I can see these getting, chaffed out, shot up etc etc, but if multiples are taken I think they could be great.

the regiments still grind nicely and I will still take them to be my work horses, the troops are still really hitty and great chaff that hurts.

6/8/7

Shield watch

This new unit is essentially palace guard that trade up a point of defence for melee and nerve decreases. They are decent enough and I think they could be seen but not that often. They are the hardest to remove troop elves have so that's something, the regiment is quite grindy, but melee 4 is sad with elite its far worse than the normal 16% drop in effectiveness and not worth bane chanting.

5/5

Forest Guard

This new unit are in effect palace guard literally taking out the CS1 and adding pathfinder and TC1, I think these will be taken eventually when people work out they are decent and often palace guard in offence that are a point harder to hit if charged or shot because they will be in terrain. One or two of these in regiment seems strong, and is some money for me in troops, could flatter to deceive but early testing they look ok.

5/6

Hunters of wild (irregular)

Big changes to these guys, rebasing :( def 5 pathfinder scout, accurate melee infantry, are interesting, but the fact they are irregular means you will likely only see troop and if you do why when it could be forest guard, scout does up the score but I feel they may be to slow to abuse it with what elves do to support.  Not awful but no cs or tc or elite is a big deal and id probably use them if they were fearless.

4/3

Kindred archers

So these are the same as before except they lost elite in melee and umm well they may have gone down to hitting on 5s.

OK with this unit the RC have lost the plot. No one really ever took horde 5+ shooting with no piercing. Guess what that wont change for the most part, that said they are ok into matches with light chaff or if you are desperate for unlocks I guess.  Basically shooting got hit in about 8 places but these were good before because for 30 points they became 16% more effective and that went up again with a bane chant, but with the buffs not existing the big unit is basically a huge target.

I think regiments as a cheap unlock will be seen and are cheap enough to forget, the troops I can see very rarely taken as cheap objective baby sitters, the hordes are probably 40 ish points overcosted (if you don't believe me assume elite and phalanx both have no value and look in order of the brothermark.

4/6/2

Therennian sea guard

Ok not my bag, hurt massively by the same indirect things as hit the archers but losing elite on arrows was a minor direct nerf to them in comparison.  So these are better archers than archers in every situation but are worse spearmen.  Traditionally the horde was taken with nimble and you may still see this but vicious is also good, you may see them because of unlock issues but I just think being more than palace guard is actually comic and so for this reason i'm not expecting to see many.

The regiments are interesting in msu/mmu builds at 165 and sitting on an objective in terrain are useful for piece trading while offering a threat with the bow. You may see some but I genuinely think are still a little price especially as a horde

-/6/4

Glade stalkers

This irregular choice are the new archers and a bit of a poster child, steady aim, pathfinder, full elite and scout, me4+ means they are a genuine all rounder. However expensive and super fragile def 3, I think they pay for scout and with steady aim now in it has a limited benefit.  You can buy regiments but I don't get it as irregular and essential the only benefit being nerve and corckscrew charges, so I expect them to be every ones favourite troop.

7/3

Stormwind cavalry

Decent cavalry have always only needed a point of nerve to complete them as a regiment, great unlocking unit. Drakons are irregular and formation is gone and phalanx could be a thing, so  I think a lot of lists will have 1 unit of them. The troops are expensive but are surprisingly good chaff pinch hitters.

5/8

Silver breeze

Another irregular poster child, dropped points and gained me4 (no elite)means people see these as a spam solution and I really don't, range 18 bows is a huge drop in effectiveness however as a replacement for seaguard unless you need the unlocks these are another decent allrounder. 

I think people may start with regiments but I think they are more versatile as troops and in addition will collectively be more resilient, and I think too many is a bad thing

7/7

Battle cats

Cheap rubbish swarm, I don't like them I don't see what they do, if I want a cheap objective holder archers are better.

If I wanted something to chock stuff up i'm likely to use forest guard.

They are useable because of nimble but I don't think they will make make many lists as points in elves is tight and lack of path finder is massive for what they want to do.

3

Forest shamblers

I want to make these work but irregular in elves and needing a surge guy to even be moderately effective means my models will still collect dust.  I guess the regiments are still good blocking pieces to trade up, that's about my only compliment. Hordes I cant make work at all and I don't think anyone else has either 4/3

War chariots

need rebasing and the size of base making them hard to play, are irregular, dropped ranged in number of shots and in to hit number and in range, also phalanx more prevailant.  Probably one of  the worst units in the game, the troop has a tiny interest

3/1/1/1

Drakon riders

Deserved nerf in losing nimble but hit less than most similar units, now irregular, could still be about as still hit like trucks, but a lot of points

6/5

Bolt thrower

stock has risen due to the stock in archers dropping and other war machines being prevailant but I don't see them as better than before and gladestalkers feel a lot better. Fits a filler niche but lacks the potential of unit strength.

5

Dragon breathe

breath weapons are nerfed, this one is nerfed more and can virtually always be charged after shooting. Its not good tbh

2

Tree herder

this much maligned fella now has 9 attatcks, strider and radiance of life on top of his befores, its massive he stays as a 50mm and its a definite consideration

7

Elven king

a really competent but very expensive individual, I wish he could have a bow so much, but he cant so will usually be on a horse.

7

Lord on Drakon

always been a little underwhelmed by this guy I think he is 1-2 attacks or 1-2 nerve short, but in an edition of potentially slightly smaller units and less nimble flyers he may have a little more use

6

Elven prince

less breathe weapons smaller units, increased number of war machines, 80 on a horse, he looks very tempting maybe 2

8

ASB

still good but maybe seen less, the need for inspiring is less now tree man are better and kings and better. Will still see him playing a banjo but less id think

5

Elven mage

lightning bolt, elite, boomstick. 1+ Until next cok when they will be nerfed

9

Dragon Kindred Lord

Still a great choice looks even better now drakons have been hit with nimble nerf.  Will still see them as great premium unlock choice, obviously the phalanx change could hit them massively, but much less than drakons because of nimble.

6

Noble war chariots

its a chariot, its a character slot and it got nerfed

1

Madriga the elf

lost vicious but gained inspiring self and a point of speed and 15 points. My favourite girl maybe a little expensive now especially considering the mage with LB

4

Tydarion

A dragon with CS4, very inspiring, brutal for 30 points, seems reasonable tbh

6

Argus Rodinar

Interesting choice I mean another reason not to chose an ASB, if this guy had unit strength he would be auto include, however only contributing by granting inspiring while taking an unlock is a little niche. I think he will be seen, but I expect to see more king, princes, dragons, mages in the character slots

5

Lists and tactics.

I suspect when the edition first begins you will see a lot of people trying high movement elf lists mainly unlocked by regiments of archers and possibly the odd stormwind cavalry.   Something like 3 dragons, 3 reg archers, 3 regiments of silverbreeze and extras.  I think its a solid enough bas but I think opposition flyers are an issue, I think its vulnerable to shooting and I worry about the lack of high quality attacks that could possibly even be healed off. However ive seen a lot of this type of design which seems popular with people. 

The alternative build will likely be 3 palace guard hordes, with king a couple of mages and troops of glade stalkers, with maybe a unit of drakons to taste.  I think this build is an attempt at a brute force build but I feel it can be out played fairly easily if the opponents moves or shoots well.

We have to go away from the idea of elves being a brute force maths faction and frankly play better using movement strengths.  The archer horde is dead but I believe we have a decent phalanx horde that in game that could be used to unlock if not PG are also decent, alternatively I think we will be basing our lists on an MMU or MSU (multiple small/medium units) that will give us combined strength. 

Elves still alpha strike (with ranged)  in a way that most others cant but it doesn't win the game in a turn any more as its not stacking numbers its a death by a thousand cuts model. I think people will need to segment the board and trade up continually by dinging units up with some shots then trading a cheap combat unit to finish off. 

Many of you will know that is the style of list I played for a long time in 2nd edition and it is effective I promise you, with the added bonus it looks great on the table and is fun to play and makes your worst possible match ups still playable as its not polarising.  The design of list im looking at right now to take into account how I feel the first year meta will be at 2K is

Elven King on horse, shard blade and sabre cat

Lord on Drakon

Archmage LB Boomstick

Archmage  LB BC Conjurers staff

Regiment Stormwind Cav Jess' Boots

Regiment Stormwind Cav Maccwars Caterpillar

Regiment Palace Guard

Regiment Palace Guard

Regiment of Kindred archers

Troop of glade stalkers

Troop of glade stalkers

Troop of Silver breeze

Troop of Silver breeze

I'm sure over coming weeks this will change about, but for scenario and positive point scoring systems this seems really good. On systems with VP difference the silver breeze would likely become 1, the second mage will become a healer and id drop the regiment of archers to become a regiment of drakon riders.

Things I think I would face

Night stalkers, goblins, basileans and undead would likely be seen a lot this coming year potentially add abyssal dwarves to that,  it hurts me to say but I think elves have limited ways of dealing with the war machines we could see, 6 war machines will be common and it annoys me indirect ignores people playing well,  other than that I don't think this edition is too scary for elves.  I don't think the number of phalanx units will be around that people say will, I don't believe overall will be as many flying circuses and I think healing will be very expensive for most factions, I think a down tick in bow fire will also massively benefit this list. 

I could be wrong I mean my list was shit for masters apparently, I played trident realms out of the formations all year,  and won an event with undead using a list without using surge, but we will see what happens, for now stay safe and have a happy Christmas, ill try to get either sylvan and twilight or trident realm done soon, depending to be honest on the feedback from this one. 

Please post on any FB group, twitter, or this blog any comment, critique or question you have, I don't claim to be the all seeing knowledge by the way is probably a million ways of playing this game.

Kings of War 3, What i would have done

Kings of War 3
What I would have done

So KOW3 has hit, and to most of us its time to reinvent the wheel, a time to creatively seek the strong and weak and have fun playing in a changed environment.  Sadly for the community many others have decided to seek to hang on to the past and proceeded to incessantly moan about the current state of the game.
So this article is about my thoughts of the base of mark 3 over the coming weeks others will come about elves and trident realms and likely some content on other stuff.  I have to start with a disclaimer, I'm opinionated and not intentionally offensive but if any individual takes offensive I apologise but you need to man up its a war game blog not a personal attack unless of course you know you've done something wrong??  If you read my contents carefully they are virtually never just a problem but also what I would have done, I find this more constructive than telling people what you don't like.

So my initial thoughts, the book is beautiful but was edited by Mr Magoo a few glowing errors that 100% should have been picked up in a publication where clearly effort has gone in to the overall content.  For me there are far, far too many factions in the game and this has led to issues throughout the content of the book and in addition to the viability of the game from a retailers stand point and from the manufacturers perspective in the medium-long term.  I think the game would have been far better served having about 10 factions and then had theme lists from those factions in order to add to flavour and diversity, I think this leads to less rule and range complexity as well as the game being far easy to balance and play test.

The values of the game I don't know anymore, the game seems neither casual or competitively balanced I think that's an issue, and I think a casual book and a competitive supplement would have been far more successful and well received by the wider community. I would love to know the brief but the decision to make army selection more complex and in many cases divisive (unnecessarily) by the addition of so many irregular units was an appalling fix to 2 issues. 
I can see that allies and the proliferation of shooting and speed were the concept and if I were to guess the brief was to make infantry played more and I feel the edition has failed in that.
To cancel allies don't make a unit irregular have the rule faction only
To sort out shooting and speed either add more field allowance restrictions(max number) and balance the units better(points or stats)
Its only my opinion but slapping irregular everywhere has massively decreased the longevity of the edition and ultimately not solved any issues as 1 horde of spears could mean 4 drakon hordes or whatever.  In addition to this the concerning vector for me is that most of us enjoy tweaking a 100 or so points maybe 200 after most events, that will often lead to a full rewrite of list now, a lot of lists that aren't even close to being broken will be illegal and most concerning of all peoples painted armies are now illegal.  The later is always something to avoid in any game, the same as the chariots changing base sizes, its a huge WHY? 

On to some positives though I love the background so finally we can start to develop a connection with our forces, I love the bubbles of stats, I love the book layout, I like the quantity of spells and the fact not everyone can have everything, I also like the scenario pack. I think the company has done a good job I'm just not enamoured with the core rules development and sadly it falls apart at army balance stage.
I wish the edition change felt like an edition change though and frankly it doesn't to me at least, in an edition change core mechanics need to change, if not then its essentially a revision of the previous edition, for me this is KOW 2.2 its basically a load of COKs rolled into one book, but essentially except a couple of things like melee charging distances and a few terrain rules MK2.  This seems an own goal because I think that familiarity has led to contempt in unit entry changes as people can easily visualise the approximate power at least in the way they used it before. 

Myself, I was really hoping for

Individual rules to go to 180degree LOS to at least mean they need some skill to use and is some counter play, 

Melee wise I would of really liked to see the end of clipping counter charges (corkscrew) as I think its so unnecessary and isn't skilful its borderline rules abuse and very counterintuitive for new players, I think maybe only nimble stuff should be able to disengage and even then I may not allow charges as feign flight seems more logical than charging units other than that with no penalty or casualties its war not Queensbury rules, on that note I think mighty and yielding are simply brilliant additions to the rules set. In addition I feel the game either had to pick a direction, which was become a little more random and fun or become even more chess like, if the former I would have added random chargers d3 or d6 or something, if the latter why is double 1 still here ?

Magic items, seems decent but I really think had they have had the 10-14 factions I proposed earlier 1 or 2 faction specifics would be welcome, however is nothing ridiculous, would anyone have been upset with just a little more variety I don't think so, but I love the changes to the points costs depending on unit size so overall a big tick from me.

Terrain, far more intuitive I love the use of hills for TC personally id have made you hindered charging up them and I think id have added some fun terrain that had different effects on you rather than every wood being a wood, whether the effect be the unit has dread or feels the effects of dread etc would just feel cool.  I lastly would not have terrain give cover id have it give concealment, this ill talk about later.

Shooting, ok this is likely the most divisive topic here, I'm going to call this Brexit of KOW, but lets be real, its been nerfed in the following ways

1) irregular units
2) no way of buffing piercing through either items or spells
3) often costs increased or ability decreased
4) increased charging distances
5) no more breath ignoring individual
6) changes to the terrain ie hills and woods
there may be more

so on paper this looks horrific, but in reality its not as bad as first seems there are buffs

1) piercing one, steady aim 4+ to hit shooting seems ok and bizarrely non piercing non steady aim shooting isn't, hence they have added loads of the former
2) war-machines are more accurate
3) lightning bolt ignores stealth
4) no more critters call and less weakness
5) imho a larger propensity of hitting medium or even smaller units that can be killed at range
6) less flying or mounted characters because of the points cost

so I think 1,2,3,5, were unnecessary and complex or unbalancing additions to the game, id always aim to improve gameplay rather than change core design values of troops.
For shooting id have cover ie you cant see half the unit and then concealment which would be what terrain gave you for being in it, so between using hills, impassable and other units good players could mitigate the damage of shooting where bad players would suffer. 
The destruction of horde based shooting and the subsequent changing of breath weapons etc is going to make this edition chaff and MMU heavy, these are great counters to horde infantry and thus I see infantry except in a few cases disappearing from the game, this genuinely feels like the opposite of the design brief if I were to look at the other changes but its so over cooked its a problem.
Now add to that how good lightning bolt is and how cheaper a lightning bolt caster is compared to a shooting unit and you can see what's going to happen here, lightning bolt vs MSU- MMU, its Warhammer 7th tbh (by the way I loved 7th)

Ok that's me on the core stuff, ill be adding my thoughts on elves, on trident realm and overall army balance in next few days, criticise, compliment, or feed back.
@chaffmaster1 on twitter
ian sturgess on facebook or messenger
or comment on the blog
we don't have to agree by the way, you can stay wrong if you want to 😉

Four Foot Knucker and an angry Two punch Jon

So this weekend I attended the four foot snake tournament. I believe having spoke to the guys running it before this tournament is focussed on encouraging more hobby and sports into the uk scene.
the pack is below

http://www.fourfootsnake.com/grand-tournament/
I thought i'd give this flavour of event a try as a weekend fell into place which rarely does in my life these days and I frantically finished painting more units for my trident realm.
I went into the tournament with little confidence, ill be honest since I moved to TR i've taken more kick ins off people than at any stage in the last 30 years apart from my first year in warmachine/hordes.
Anyway after collecting all the learning from all my play testing different units I cam eto some conclusions for my playstyle.

1. Trident realm chaff is expensive and easy to remove or to slow to be effective in most scenarios, this doubles as a problem when you consider the reasonable price of Thuul.
2.  Trident realms have issues with flyers and cavalry so is really best not to have 2 separate lines of engagement and throw in many fast pieces in your list to account for this.
3. Unit strength is important for trident realms, consider as few items as possible.
4.  Trident realms can be cute but for the most part this should be on the table top not at list writing, the siren, a teleport mage, a surge mage, ekhter and some water elementals are great, but lets run through those points, this isn't Fallen formation from varangurr and it isn't points efficient.
5). Put pathfinder in the list wherever possible as its limited

I'm as always not telling others how to play but I have my own thoughts on what is needed to combat the current meta.
I started my journey with a testing msu shooting lists often with nature allies in COK 18, trident king, Heartpiercers, riverguard, talon riders etc with thuul to do most of the fighting and a couple of blocking characters.  This design of list was ok but was beyond dice dependant, its fragility led to results frequently swinging on one dice role, I was thus winning just under 50% of my games, which while not shocking is fairly bad as my records at wargaming and since I play kings would be around 80-90%, the dice swing is also an issue as nature, elves, abyssals and may others just shoot better and these matchups are dire.  This was dropped after a 2 day event in December where I finished bottom half for the first time in atleast a decade, maybe with the new formation its better now, however I feel naaids still have dire matchups into elves and abyssals and I think varanguur runs this type of army over.

So I quickly moved on to playing a monster mash, this was amazing fun, double krakens, elementals, wyrm riders all the toys, I have found these lists interesting, they were usually run with king of crabs or depth horrors in support, had great time running this list my winning went up to 70% or so and it felt better, I tried the full surge windblast sirens call trick but preferred a couple of extra monsters ultimately as this doubled down on the lists issues, which is lack of U/S at end of the game. We all know mosnters don't hit that hard except the kraken as the rest flounder around with 8 or so attacks hitting on 4s.  As I said an improvement, this felt more natural for trident realm and something they could do nearly as well as some of the best factions at it, the issue was the unit strength could be an issue and not having mounted asbs I found a problem until without spending 150points. It also frustrated me, on paper wyrm riders look like they should work, but they didn't seem to, I can count on 1 hand the amount of times they killed something even near their points without being soloed back by the unit.  Was still experimenting so moved on to

The new naaid formation, I like these guys its a perfectly reasonable start to an army, however I don't like its half your army at 2k. I want some heart piercer and a flying centurion in most lists but I don't want to pay the ensnarer tax for them.  A tactically flexible formation that i've run with king crabs, wyrm riders and knuckers and even a mini monster mash,  Its definitely a decent list but im frustrated by it, the lack of ability to shoot turn 1, the lack of resilience to shooting and a personal play style didn't suit me as im a grab all general not a vp difference guy.. Now it is important to state right now in a tournament using VP difference as the secondary scoring set I think that this formation may be optimal, however I think if you like to virtually table people which I do for a bonus on your kills only I think my list is worth 5-10 tournament points more.

The learnings and the list

So I took a massive gamble going into this event, I wrote a list, I played it once after submission and rocked up to the event now what I took and why.

Trident king.  220
This guys isn't quite ubiquitous to the faction n my opinion, however I'm here to tell you that if you're not taking him seriously consider why not.  Nimble speed 8 charges are very effective in trident realms, the ability to support knuckers with inspiring and something that threatens front charges and the ability to tease or support other missile fire can be key. Can work alone and sometimes solo a flank now he has regen, is pathfinder sure of being ubiquitous, even without he's money and in my opinion the mini kraken as I call him is better than the real deal for pure adaptability in an army that is less adaptable than some. (also my model is converted/kitbashed and I really love the fluff so hes going in)

Naaid Centurion with wings of honeymaze.  150
this is a very specific tech piece that after trying everyone who I could with wings or high speed I settled on this guy.  Possibly 20 points over what I want to pay but he's class.  Mobile inspiring is something I enjoy with combat armies, however this is the key piece to disrupting flying, shooting and cavalry which are the 3 banes of TR.  The fact hes pathfinder, ensnare, regen and for a reason only mantic know def 5 is all the logic you need to play this guy, I've locked down units at key times for extended periods or even till they die, grounded flyers or killed warmachines and shooting for fun with this guy. I genuinely believe a flying character for board control is critical as TR, you cant do better than this guy, however the mythican is a good bit cheaper if you are nearly at budget

Naaid envoy, shroud of saint, heal and surge  140
The armies support guy, I would think with the exception of surge this is very common load out as heal 6 is big enough to change games at times. Surge makes her seriously expensive, I cast it twice, however I think the threat is real and its the threat that you rely on with stuff like this, also its more anti flyer control

Thuul mythican, bane chant, critters call 110
grounds flyers, bane chants an army that's not high CS for the most part, inspires thuuls and adds shooting, cav and flyer control, in a pinch also fights, what more do you want for that points total ?

3 Thuul regiments 420
this is something I saw under Cok18 (but with the much worse troops) in the formation. I must see something many have forgotten in 2019.  So what they are speed 6 that doesn't matter, yes in some match ups these guys venture off and want to hit something and die but its not their main role in my play style.  These guys are blockers or the chaff if you like in a game where people can one hit Gigas and where they can these guys work as a trio and cause chaos.  20 attacks, stealth and ensnare is exactly what supports gigas best, arguably the depth horror is as good but its tendancy to be deleted at range and extra 45 points means I tend to go for thuul. Try the depth horrors if you like but id probably put dwarven ale, or staying stone on these guys before you did.

King Crabs 400
Gigas do what TR were meant to do best you sacrifice whatever you need to, to keep these guys fighting till the end in 8/10 match ups. The formation has bought them to life, I don't think they need items but if I had the points I guess, ale, stone and chalice would be high on my list.

Water elementals 220
So the thuul hit the high nerve low defence, the gigas fight the high value and these support either, add a moderate threat range and control enemy positions and flyers, am always underwhelmed with the damage and its another unit where thuul regiments being in the list means this can thrive by always having possible flanks to aim for and not themselves having to take any charges.

Greater water elemental 190
loved the concept of him, loved the model, did virtually zero damage and height 4 means he got picked on, if I had the points would go second elementals, but as is this guy got in the way a few times and hes ok for that and the small base is useful.
Again partly taken for the model

Knucker 145

a really weird piece, people want to stay out of its threat and I don't know why, its another flying disrupting, shooting lockdown, cavalry stopping piece that if someone lets it round the back cause much bigger issues. I like him and luckily the tournament gave me

Knucker Jon Free
(two punch jon faulkes see rule pack)

Love this fella in the last game did 17 damage in one round to an ancient dragons flank, obviously not as good as a knucker in defence or movement, but was super fun with blasts into combats, they valued this guy at 150, and I wish I could take him instead of the water elemental :)

Brief Tactics

So the plan for my list was if I was going to be alpahed with high cs or tc,  use the thuuls as a first line with gigas and elementals behind. If i'm against high volume low quality attacks it'll be gigas up front and the rest behind.  Equally if playing against mass trash armies then use thuul up front to decimate all they can.
The Knucker and trident king generally try and dominate a flank the breathe presence and speed with nimble are big and the trident king will often tank the first hit if they are out paced.
I tend to deploy the envoy behind the water stuff with a gigas near by so they can always threaten surge flanks if someone gets stuck, this is likely to be near a wood or field. Around a hill I tend to deploy the water formation near the thuul and use them as bait. The naaid just does whatever she likes tbh all the fast pieces vary in role game to game.

Well that's the prep now a brief brief run down of games

Round 1, Plunder, Adam Padley (uk master)

This I was worried about, the amount of shots and movement against me I thought I had few answers to, however on the positive side through analysis I realised to spread wide so as not to get clogged behind wavering units and offer every target as a threat, this will also stop the fast cav enveloping me.

Turn 1
The match was pretty much decided like this, I rushed across the board and adam shot me but not rolling spectacularly.

Turn 2
I rushed again but massively the knucker, trident king partnership dominated the right flank with the breath wavering a unit of fast cav, and leaving the other trapped. On the left the centurion was ready to tag the character rock lobber.  The mythican used critters call on a wizard to drop the fire rate.
The retaliation and the last turn of mainly uncontested shots was a huge turning point as from memory when the dust settled I think I had 2 units of thuul wavered but everything else was good, I had expected something to die.

Turn 3
The lines engaged, 2 giga units, two punch jon and the water elemental went into some rabble in the wood and failed to break it, everywhere else something charged something including the mythican. The right flank I got a slice of luck the king finished the wavered dudes, but the knucker charged the other unit and after only doing 4 wounds rolled the10 or so needed to pop them and free up both units on the flank.  The left side the centurion killed the catapult meaning his trombones etc were no longer safe.
On Adams turn I started to take losses and his dice woke up after my less than impressive previous engagement, he shot big, adam tried to target the gigas with the catapults and some spells, but then found out that their height was only 1 and he had to retarget the graeter elemental, he hit twice did something like 12 damage and then put some more on with trombones to seal the deal. The thuul fighting the rabble in the middle wavered and the wavered thuul died.

Turn 4
The trident king starts collecting tokens and the brawl continues, I cant remember every last kill, but I can remember 2 huge things and a weird little bonus, double 1s on a horde of rabble and a trombone, and a bonus slightly unnecessary double 6 on a horde of archers with just a mythican still fighting it.
Adams retilation was now limited, a couple of stone throwers missed the trident king and I think he finished another thuul unit, but ultimately it was looking short.

Turn 5
I started just killing whatever was in sight, gigas running around the left now  but  getting worryingly surrounded, Adams centre now collapsed due to a knucker joining in the rear, leaving my water elementals and a very battered thuul unit standing in the smoke, and the trident king tried to get safe with his 2 value coin.
Adam retaliated by killing the thuul and knucker jon.  Adam swung wide around the left with the remaining fast cav and his work now was all being done by individuals

Turn 6
My centurion heroically charged some fast cav, the gigas try their best with the envoy to stop the fast cav getting to the 2 left tokens, the elementals pick up another token and go right. The knucker kills a warmachine.
Adam kills my centurion and looks to try and reposition to get the 2 point token second from left.

Turn 7 starts im up 3-1
Gigas and envoy block him from the 2 point token, knucker kills a lobber, adam has 1 last chance to kill the trident king with a couple of individuals but its not happening and I seal the deal.

Thoughts height 1 gigas are a thing against warmachines but also because I can heal across them because my elementals are all bigger. Adam had a 1 bad and 1 very bad shooting round, obviously I mitigated and harassed and then the game nearly swung back on the double double 1 but the plan of sacrifice the thuul and the big chump to try and keep the resilient stuff till the end worked.

Anyway the next blog post will have games 2-5, because i'm tired
hope you enjoy and read the next one

Quick Masters run down

We will start this with a quick masters report.

Game 1 Empire of Dust Ed Herzig

had a fantastic game against my friend Ed Herzigs Empire of Dust, it was invade scenario and that favoured Ed. My shooting held Ed back which I think was clever on his part to limit its effect till turn 3-4, however I still scored a chariot horde before the skirmishes broke out. Ed got the run of the dice in a couple of places and I think he played the flying pharaoh well, he picked up the chariots and the drakons. However I played for turn 6 and chocked up the middle of the board with my archery, turn 6 I win with the score of an archer regiment, I think in turn 7 there is probably a 70% chance he won, but there was no turn 7 :) 14-7 I think

Game 2 Night Stalkers George Kirke

I'd never met George but found him quite pleasant, he obviously knew his stuff but I've never played night stalkers before and found his models majorly confusing which wasn't his fault. However I formed and executed a plan where shooting wasn't that important to me (a mistake i've analysed since) however it still should have been ok.  George played well except one mistake where he allowed me to get a unit of phantoms with my drakons for no exchange on the right, maths wise the left was mine sown up. However on the left he first broke my drakons and then chariots needing either 9s or 10s with rerolls for both and that happened, in the centre I flanked his monster with my dragon and did 3 wounds and that was kinda the story, attrition led to the scenario win and I cant remember what that was.  Fair play to the guy, you need luck as well as skill to do well and this guy had both. 2-19 I think

Game 3 Chris Cowburn Ogres

I'd never met Chris either but had the opened my mouth and said I didn't know what his list did, I think this guy may have been a laugh but he was a little poorly (I was off work 3 days in the next week so he had his revenge).  Anyway we rolled up, he had a couple of red blasters or something, I did the maths and figured let on ehit the dragon and another the drakons so did, I took the flanks early with these pieces he walked into the middle getting shot, and didn't quite make it.  In honesty his journey wasn't helped I was 10% over on dice and him 10% under but that only would have changed the margin in truth.  19-2 I think

Time to get pissed, we had a lovely meal with 80% of the field and then the try hards went home (only kidding you are just sharper than me really), but the vets stayed out Me, Tom Robinson, Adam Padley, Nick Williams and Paul Welsh all went drinking shots till 3 or so in the morning we will see how that worked out.

Game 4 Elves Tom Robinson

So the KOW elf master vs the Warhammer one, I didn't like his list, not for the first time I felt my chariots were dead weight and that made me deploy them terribly, Tom got a perfect table and the perfect side with the roll. I played a game of hoping Toms dice were 10% down as they had been all weekend but they weren't in fact they were better than average and mine were way down the curve, his big blocks dominated preceedings. I held on and in a normal scoring probably went down 18-19, but this scoring was skewed weird and I think I went down 17-4 in reality even in a tabling losing 1-2 units no more than an 18 was on due to the lack of scoring units elven armies have.  lost 4-17

Game 5 Elves Sam Barker

So the other list I slagged off, tbh this guy was the perfect last game, friendly guy who wanted to chat, probably my game of the weekend.  In truth he told me he thought deployment was his worst part of the game, and it was, he left me a free regiment of drakons and a free regiment of palace guard. Once taken he chased the game really really well, his archer were outrageous(remember no bane chant and no piercing), they shot off a drakon horde with a little help of a dragons breath, they then gave they next drakon horde a volley and then broke them in combat and finally took my dragon 3 rounds to finish them, but that won me the scenario.
I think 18-3 it may be 17-4

So the results
John Quayle let me down
but then I got the rest rightish (well George and Mtt from Bristol I got mixed up)
1). Adam Padley
2). George Kirke
3). Dan King
4). Tom Robinson
5). Rich Tomlinson
6). Me
7) Rob Phipps
8) Jon Quayle
9) Dom Staveacre
10) Matt James
11) Dave Fletcher
12) Ed Herzig
13) Sam Barker
14). Chris Cowburn
15). Martin Dinsley
16). Paul Welsh

So my conclusions
Chariot Hordes are awful without nimble, even with nimble id still go for archers or seaguard, their nerve is too low, their base is too big, they are seriously clunky and don't work for what I want them to do, I prefer regiments just to get the unlocks. My dragon still cant roll dice in combat, id be happy for 7-8 wounds but he usually does 3-4 if I'm lucky with the nerf to breath incoming I wont be playing him.  The second unit of drakons needs a better plan and with the meta change incoming with disruption spells and weakness everywhere I feel MSU/MMU elves could be the future with COK19. I guess time will tell but I'm on trident realms, and sorry for the small delay I keep being ill and im blaming Chris Cowburn

A guide to the UK masters (well how I see it)

So its time for the masters this weekend, so lets celebrate the game, its my first time at KOW masters as frankly I only really started to pay any attention to the game from around April 2018 or so, before that I literally just rolled dice with my mate Mick for old times sake.  Looking around the field though there are a lot of guys who have been there seen it and done it all before and I'm expecting a lesson in KOW if I'm honest.
Masters pack is based on the black jack scoring system at 1995pts and sticking to COK 18. http://clashofkingsau.com/blog/2017/10/22/blackjack-a-new-way-to-score-for-kow which basically scores more the more that you win scenario by.  I'm not a fan as it leads to really negative play in my opinion but you roll with the punches and produce what you need to and here's what I went with for the event

so quickly my choices and my play style, this is not a gunline, I was actually mortally offended when Elliot called it that on the you tube of Northern Kings(like and subscribe to it guys), this is actually a combined arms list that is more interested in fighting than shooting, Toms is a more of a gunline as it has the same shots as mine but instead of investing in aggression he's invested in control and blocking/denial for his extra points.

My list

Dragon kindred lord
the flying breath pre nerf was to good not to take, I always regret not taking dragons when I don't so I went with him

2 Drakon hordes
the really heavy lifting and space threatening of the list, also very likely to try and score when they survive

Chariot horde
bought in specially for this scoring system, probably a mistake but I sometimes like the aggression that they can bring and they are ok at shooting, just really, really flimsy but cheapish naked

Archer horde and archer regiment
the horde is any most elf lists
the regiment is basically unit strength that can contribute without getting auto killed and isn't so expensive that I just wont go and claim stuff with it and sacrifice the shooting where that suits

ASB I wanted him to contribute, so lute, diadem and kabas grenades were on my mind, I picked wrong I should have had kabas grenades here and fire oil on the chariots, that synergises much better with my list

Black crown Mage
there is a reason she is no longer a thing

Master hunter (inspiring)
I don't get whats not to like, he contributes with little to no risk, he can turn 1 charge, hes inspiring to drakons if the dragon needs to fly off to the other flank, he can often ground flyers, such versatility and a great bow.

Dragons breathe
just because I hate individuals

So basically my list plays with what I call inside out, this usually means the elements that threaten you with melee are on the outside of my set up (in either width or behind) and the shooting units are on the inside, the list then forms semi circles or similar to effectively create a death zone in the middle, but at any time I can choose to play refused flank or even straight up try and run some lists over due to its speed, especially if I can concentrate on one side of the opponents army and block the other up (tank and spank).

So what I want to see
other combined arms lists as I think elves do it best in the game
infantry lists with no pathfinder
gun lines with a lack of mounted individuals

and what I don't want to see
lists that heal a lot
lists that have fast individuals or a lot of surge
lists that can easily remove my drakons at long range
full on swarms of dudes

so I looked at the field and scored each match up 1bad-5good for myself (player not considered)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdLx4VbJtoY&t=124s
https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1Bx_z7vQM2oteZ2VB4APU3J4Zakw4tjYJ?fbclid=IwAR1APjZZEAgOEiMJG4ciI8BZso-Xdy2MmunFraxrM3Ky4GCVfFgKxolODec

How I could fare
Toms elves 2 I think he just slightly out threats me and because im all about thunderous the sea guard are annoying
Doms orcs 4 troll hordes are annoying and its always dicey with 6 combat units vs 3.5, but im fairly confident with terrain and with any sort of average dice I should achieve just breaking a unit a turn before it gets to me
Dans undead 3, maybe its to quick for me, its hard to see, this isn't a style ive played into before im worried about him jamming me out of scenario with the unit strength kept safe but on the plus side its undead without surge and heal. Am not sure on this one tbh
Pauls Varangur 3, nothing in this, hes fast, I hate the flying character, I hate fallen, he hates giving me a clean shot at anything
Adams Goblins 1, I cant get to what hurts me and I'm left trading expensive units for garbage
Rob Phipps Abyssal Dwarves 4, I don't like the armour or surge but is little that hurts me at range and I think I can trade fairly favourably, a little unknown to me though abyssal dwarves
Rich Tomlinson Brotherhood 4, a solid list that I think is doing combined arms worse than me but I don't play brother hood much
Jon Quayle Empire of dust 2, , I think Jon needs to make a slight error for me to take off this mass of surging fortitude, however stealth all round character :( I think its teched to play elves tbh I don't like the match up as I feel long range shots usually even the match out, stealth wrecks that and elves cant fight EOD.
David Fletcher Dwarfs 3, I am so glad David took out his Behemoths, this looks a really tense game to me now.
Sam Barker elves 5. Confession I usually blog tired and drunk, but I just don't see what this list does, really sorry if I'm wrong
Chris Cowburn Ogres 5, I think I just out threat and control this list too easily and there isn't enough meat.
Matt James orcs 2-3, I think 3 individuals especially with Gakamak will get to places I don't want them to and hurt my game plan, however I think first turn is huge.
Ed Herzig Empire of dust 2, that bit of shooting and that pharaoh make this very tricky, however on the flip side, the 2 chariot hordes and less heal make this list much more squishy, I think terrain is huge on the score.
Martin Dinsley Ratkin 3, original list, the stealth is annoying and there is plenty of bodies, I just feel this is a free for all matchup, too many factors could happen
George Kirk Night stalkers 2, its all stealth which seems bad and looks like it may run me over, also never played night stalkers.

Ians Sweep stake.

and now my run down of the predictions (I don't know every player so commentary will vary because of that and not any disrespect) this is tongue and cheek and i'm 6 pints in so no animosity please

1 Jon Quayle I think he's teched correctly, loads of anti shooting wasted against him and super strong in combat with shootings damage now mitigated against him. Very solid player and pushed tom without the stealth when imho Tom had a stronger list at clash.
2 Tom Robinson probably should be number 1 but that's boring
3 Matt James super solid player but I feel his match up into potentially Tom and Adam looks rough
4 Adam Padley I seriously hate goblin gunlines, but I feel he will lose a scenario game somewhere
5 Dan King legend in the game, I love his list design, seems very cool and different and he's taken the massively under pointed monsters,  just feel his unit strength is based on units that can get ground out by virtually anything.
6 David Fletcher I like David lots, and I know he's gone for extra fortitude instead of his behemoths, but his list is slower for it and I think it hurts him too much to place higher
7 Dom Staveacre very thoughtful player, very strong list, but also very safe player and I think that will cost him in a masters field standings (that's not a criticism Dom)
8 Martin Dinsley I think the X factor of Martins list gains him a couple of spots, Martin is consistently accurate in his play, and my lift back to the hotel so was never going bottom half
9 George Kirke  don't know the guy but read his rankings and list rolled some dice and he landed here
10 Rob Phipps like the list but I feel its gonna win or lose big very time
11 Paul Welsh  super strong list from a guy who isn't very good at gaming, I disagree so you're going in above me
12 Rich Tomlinson  I think Rich will always have a game to play in every match up and hes been round a long time
13 Ed Herzig  its not Eds year to come last  but hes done it the other times so hes staying down here
14 Ian Sturgess im just too inexperienced and don't play enough
15 Chris Cowburn don't get the list prove me wrong, please do, if not i'll be bringing beer
16 Sam Barker don't get the list, prove me wrong, please do, if not im bringing beer

 Good luck to everyone and Thx to John Faulkes, Elliot Morrish and Nick Williams
 for their effort putting on this event
as usual feel free to call me out